cant keep rubber guard for some reason....

mania's picture
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whenever i get rubber guard, the person i am rolling with seems to be able to break it by stacking. i am not sure what i am doing wrong. i have been playing it for a little while and just started getting this issue. by no means is it perfect, but i think i have it down. i can figure out what is missing. any suggestion.....i need to churched on this one!

if you cant beat them, arrange to have them beaten.
-george carlin

BulletEater's picture
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I find that, similar to holding a triangle, people with wide shoulders and strong upper bodies can posture out a lot easier than others. My buddy that trained with me is also a power lifter, so he's just really broad. Holding rubber guard on him is really tough, because he can just power/shrug his way out.

I think that it's a lot like the posture with a triangle. Using your left hand to control their right leg will help, but some people can just stand out of that type of control. However, you can take that left hand and reach across their upper back and grab their left shoulder...meat hook, I think they call it. This frees up both your right arm and leg to control their legs and move for gogo's and different rubber guard triangles. Also, start moving to invisible collar to free up your arms.

I miss rubber guard, I gotta start rolling with small folk again. Hope that helped a bit.

ونحن جميعا الكتب من الدم ، وعندما أردنا فتح نحن الحمراء.

mania's picture
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the only thing that i have found that works lately is pushing out their posting leg from mission control. but that interferes with the transition to omoplata or whatever i else i may be looking for at the time. and yea most of the guys i roll with are heavier and broader. one of them is like grappling a damn oak tree.

if you cant beat them, arrange to have them beaten.
-george carlin

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I used to do that, too. Just use your right leg to try to sit them back down. I'd really play with the meat hook and the three triangle-type moves from there....um...what are they? Tepee, bolt cutter or something...and another. Just like any position; if you make it more offensive they have to concentrate on not getting choked instead of powering past your guard. I'm gonna work rubber guard this weekend, I'll tell you how I react to the stack on Sunday.

Thanks for reminding me!

ونحن جميعا الكتب من الدم ، وعندما أردنا فتح نحن الحمراء.

mania's picture
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no problem. i need as much help as possible. my game has been lacking as of late. dont know why, tho.

if you cant beat them, arrange to have them beaten.
-george carlin

Joe Friday's picture
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Have you tried to use your free leg to push on their hip???

Just the facts maam.

mania's picture
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yea that is only thing that keeps the position for me right now. but i didnt have to do that any the past. may be a flexibility issue?

if you cant beat them, arrange to have them beaten.
-george carlin

BulletEater's picture
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Try baiting them into the Carni. I used to pull that off with moderate success. It's a very high percentage move, I just didn't play with it much before satan ate my elbows.

ونحن جميعا الكتب من الدم ، وعندما أردنا فتح نحن الحمراء.

dsarkissian's picture
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buy the book mastering the rubber guard it explains almost every aspect of the rubber guard. to deal with stacking i might go to crackhead control! Anyways get the book he explains everything it takes a while to read and remember the names and positions but unless you have the guide book you are probably not doing it right. there are so many names in the rubber guard game because it is very specific for slight varitaions in your opponents reactions.

why fear the dark, light a candle, get the book! master the rubber guard-

"Ask me no questions, and I will tell you no lies!" Adage

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." - American Wisdom/ Lincoln

dsarkissian's picture
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big guys need crack head control, because they are strong like they are cracked out

"Ask me no questions, and I will tell you no lies!" Adage

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." - American Wisdom/ Lincoln

sky_at_peace's picture
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pump off the stack is always good.

you may have some core issues that need to be worked on. flexibility, sweeping power, hip movement, strength, squeeze, ect

there are many unmentioned prerequisites

TaurusClimber's picture
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Different things in jiu-jitsu work on different types of people. I'm about 5'10, 150lbs, and I found that half guards works great on big guys. It's much much easier to move your hips in half guard, and if they try to flatten you out, you can sweep them with their own momentum, and if they try to stay in position, work for underhooks and take their back. There are some good chokes you can do from half guard as well, so if you can't get the sweep or back, you have that option. That's what worked for me anyway...my "big guys" guard has turned in to me standing back up, or shooting way underneath their hips with half-guard. I found it was unnecessary struggle to try and keep someone with 100lbs on me from regaining posture when I could just swim under them.

mania's picture
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i'm 5'7...170, the rest of the guys are around 190 and up. half guard does work pretty well for me too. if nothing else i can shrimp out to the side and try to get the back. once or twice i have been able to land a twister by sliding out from half. if i lose my high guard or rubber guard, i go straight to half since i know i can work it out from there. what chokes are available from half guard?

if you cant beat them, arrange to have them beaten.
-george carlin

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Madness... I sometimes find arm triangles from the bottom halfguard position. It can be a little tough to finish from there so while holding on to the triangle I will then sweep them to gain top position.

Just the facts maam.

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Hey Madness, I have trained at a 10th Planet gym in AZ before I moved to WA. First try to establish New York. It is a much better transition move and holding move than Mission Control. Once you have New York and the guy is stacking you, Juclaw(omo) is actually pretty easy to get.

The comment about the invisible collar is good but you will need to get chill dog first. Now you do not HAVE to have chill dog but going from crack head to invisible collar is much more difficult than Chilldog to Invisible collar, in my experiences.

What we liked to do mainly if your flexibility is there when they are aggressivly stacking you establish crackhead, they will then stack even more. This actually makes it very easy to roll them head first as if you were doing a backwards roll.

I hope a couple of these help. I have been lurking Lockflow for a couple years I figured I might as well sign up finally!!

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Bawa posted a really cool sweep-bait to triangle from half guard a couple years ago that I have used with a lot of success. I usually maintain a strong lockdown from half and then work to the back or to truck position.

ونحن جميعا الكتب من الدم ، وعندما أردنا فتح نحن الحمراء.

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Bawa posted a really cool sweep-bait to triangle from half guard a couple years ago that I have used with a lot of success. I usually maintain a strong lockdown from half and then work to the back or to truck position.

ونحن جميعا الكتب من الدم ، وعندما أردنا فتح نحن الحمراء.

Speaking of Bawa... where has he been!?

Just the facts maam.

TaurusClimber's picture
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One of my favorites, I"ll try to describe...

Half guard, start with good half guard posture. If you are on your right side, you'll start this with your left arm. Your left arm goes across his neck, gripping his collar deep. Shrimp your body out away from him, and at the same time, reach under your left arm, grabbing the other side of his collar, and bring your top knee up into his shoulder nearest your hip. This keeps him from being able to block the choke. Squeeze the choke just like a cross collar from guard. If anything is unclear, ask, and I'll try to clarify.

Another one of my favorites, not a choke though, is simply shrimping out and coming up for a single leg. Instead of turtling and grabbing with just my arms, when I shrimp, I wrap my outside leg around his outside leg, and when I come up, drive into him real hard while I have a body lock. Works great to put him on his back. Just be ready to counter the whizzer.

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Not sure. He had some innovative bjj.

ونحن جميعا الكتب من الدم ، وعندما أردنا فتح نحن الحمراء.

flying_monkey's picture
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one thing you have to work on alot when working with rubber guard is the squeeze endurance. the whole time ur in rubber guard you have to be curling down on ur opponent. sometimes thats not enough thats why you either go to crackhead control until they chill out or the double bagger which you can go through all the other steps all the way to kung fu. so if you have the flexibility double bagger is the way to go for control.

"One thing only I know, and that is that I know nothing." Socrates

mania's picture
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that vid of eddie showing the sorcerer from double bagger was sick. who says weed doesnt expand your mind! i doubt very seriously i will ever have the flexibility to really master transitioning smoothly to the double though.

the squeeze is a big deal for me, when working with bigger guys, which is most everyone i roll with, my legs and core fatigue pretty quick. so i either drop the rubber guard and go back to spider, try to sweep, or shrimp out.

if you cant beat them, arrange to have them beaten.
-george carlin

shinchoke's picture
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I also love to set up a arm scissor from MC. A lot of guys will think you are throwing a armbar or trying to set up a sweep and turn right into the scissor trap.
Another fun thing to try is once you get MC set up, lock it in really tight when they try to stack and shrug. Roll backwards. You will be very very surprised how many people do NOT see this coming. Going from MC to having someone in a high mount is a WTF sweep.

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity"

Lion's picture
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maybe they just got used to it. ask them why could they get out.

hard sparring session is like a cold shower in a warm day. It feels good.

Lion's picture
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maybe they just got used to it. ask them why could they get out.

hard sparring session is like a cold shower in a warm day. It feels good.

BCfromBC's picture
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Youtube 'gag reflex' and skip any vids that also have 'barely legal' or 'nsfw' in the title. It's a move Einstein runs on stackers. Foot in the hip is the standard go-to stack stop, but if you don't get it early enough or are trying it against someone with slippery hips it's a toughie. The backwards roll seems like it would rely on your opponent seriously overleaning the stack, but I will give it a try with an open mind next time I'm stack in MC. Good thread guys, thanks, and hope the reflex helps.
Cheers. Wink

The world ends when you're dead. Until then, there's more punishment to come. So stand it like a man and try to give some back.

Thaisen's picture
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just some thoughts . I recently started training at a 10th planet gym. "10th planet springfield" I have noticed that keeping everything really tight is huge. With flexibility issuses also hipping out really makes it alot easier to play through the rubber guard paths. Another thing that imho is important is realizing that rubberguard isnt an end all guard, it is just one of the many guards that you can play, and alot of people get higher percentages from it, but being able to switch from different guard types is crucial.. once again ..imho.... stacking is one of the most effective and common ways to counter someone playing rubberguard....i may be lazy or a defeatist, but usually if someone has a pretty good stack i switch to some type of open guard variation. also try and advance through the path quickly...watch for hands on the mat...thats free new york, which again imho is way eaiser to settle someone down in new york than mission control....

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kelby's picture
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i really don't buy into rubber guard too much. in mma people have tried. only to get a good pounding. maybe for competition it is good.
also it is not intended to hold people down for long, it is going into techniques right away. it is very hard to hold a decent grappler with a strong posture down.

BillWatcher's picture
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Like Thiasen said, hipping out is huge if you have limited flexability.

The roll I was talking about is from crackhead and it is from someone over stacking. It's just another out if that situation comes.

flying_monkey's picture
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are you serious? have you ever trained with anyone who could do it half decent? if your even close to my weight i could hold you down with no effort unless you actually have been doing rubber guard for 3 or more years then that would be harder but judging on what ur saying you have no clue what rubber guard is

"One thing only I know, and that is that I know nothing." Socrates

BillWatcher's picture
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I agree. Even if you don't buy into it, why not learn the basic techniques so when you run across someone that does have the correct knowledge on it and has drilled it, you are not lost.

But in mainstream MMA there are few guys that know the fine details in the rubber guard game. That is why when you generally see someone attempting rubber guard it looks pointless and you wonder why....

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