the Gracie's break down the Werdum triangle - vid
Mon, 06/28/2010 - 23:14
LF GENERAL #000
Mon, 06/28/2010 - 23:52
#2
Wow Bullet. Would you be doing what you do if the Gracies didn't exist? I feel like this would be like a musician hating the Beatles. 
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 00:55
#3
I actually thought it was a pretty good explanation of the move. It will often times take me several mins to teach a move or a throw that is over in a sec. And I agree with myke7777, hating on the gracies for breaking down a move that their family help make famous is kinda crazy.
Never argue with an idiot, cause he'll bring you down to his level and beat you with experience
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 01:10
#4
Videos like this are good for the average joe bulleteater. Someone who didn't know what happened in the fight can now see, step by step, how Werdum caught him in the triangle. It's good even for beginner jiu-jitsu guys. I watched stuff like this all the time when I first started.
--------------
I am a musician, and I absolutely hate the beatles. There were plenty of musical styles before the beatles, so not liking them means nothing in any sense. Where would the beatles have been without their influences? Someone 40 years ago could have said the exact same thing that you did, and 40 years before that, and so on. Their voices make me want to pierce my eardrums. British pop = bad.
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 04:49
#5
gotta side with bulleteater on this one.
the gracies are the gracies, no doubt they command respect across the globe. that vid was an excellent breakdown for anyone at any level. however it wreaked of shameless self promotion.
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 04:51
#6
I generally spend the same amount of time when teaching a technique in class. They went over many of the subtle details of the technique which are important to understand how the technique works and how to properly apply it. On top of that, they started doing these fight breakdowns to help explain to the common fan what is going on when the fight goes to the ground. How are the Gracies 100% irrelevant to MMA? Their little brother just fought and beat Sakuraba, their cousins are actively fighting in MMA and their father, uncles, and grandfathers helped lay the foundation for the sport.
11th dan in Parnes Jiu-Jitsu, it's one more than Ransom's. Real PJJ goes to 11!
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 04:53
#7
Very good breakdown of what happened in my opinion. I got an email last night, and their father Rorion has got a book on the Gracie Doet coming out soon. I like the Gracies and the Beatles.
Show class, have pride, and display character. If you do this, winning will take care of itself.
-Paul "Bear" Bryant
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 05:07
#8
The breakdown: good
17 year old nod to daddy having "created" the UFC: bad
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 05:12
#9
LF ARMY #063
I like the Gracies and the Beatles.
I don't think you 'have' to like the Gracies. They are pretty stubborn and they don't seem to want to adapt. I would say that you 'have' to recognize their impact on our sport. I hate Brock Lesnar, but I recognize his skills and respect what he brings to the table. There will probably never be a time that the Gracies will be 100% irrelevant to MMA, they are not the Shamrocks!
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 08:29
#10
LF ARMY #073
I like the Gracies, Hate Frank Shamrock and use to drive a VW Beetle.
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 09:38
#11
I like some of the Gracies, dislike Ken but like Frank (unless he's commentating on a fight), and my wife drives a VW Jetta. 
11th dan in Parnes Jiu-Jitsu, it's one more than Ransom's. Real PJJ goes to 11!
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 09:56
#12
But what about the cage?!
I think I've posted that on every single message board that I frequent.
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 10:03
#13
LF ARMY #073
^^^ I still like the Gracies, Hate Frank Shamrock, use to drive a VW Beetle...and I like Nicolas Cage.
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 10:07
#14
^^^ I still like some of the Gracies, have a love hate relationship with Frank Shamrock, wife drives a VW Jetta, like Nic Cage but absolutely despise Johnny Cage.
11th dan in Parnes Jiu-Jitsu, it's one more than Ransom's. Real PJJ goes to 11!
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 10:14
#15
LF CAPT. #031
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 10:15
#16
I don't like anybody.
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 15:30
#17
Haha. Interesting thread! I love that the musician says he hates the beetles, because I despise that silly band. My mom weened me on black sabbath, led zeppelin, joplin, et. al. By the time I was in 4th grade I'd graduated to slayer and pantera, and rage against the machine and death metal were right around the corner. It's only the causation fallacy that says without the beetles, Gojira wouldn't exist. It's just not true and it's silly.
The self-promotion of the gracie video is what annoyed me. Beating Sakuraba is not impressive. I'd have been more interested if Manhoef had explained the triangle; he maaaangled Saku. Werdum got his black belt in Europe from a 3rd generation Gracie guy, anyway. When was the last time the Gracies were a force in MMA? Aside from Roger, who outweighs the people he grapples, they're not even relevant in ADCC. Maybe Kyra, but the rest have not adapted to the judo/wrestling/cardio insanity that pervades high level bjj.
I'll say it: the gracies are totally irrelevant. Contributions 20 years ago do not count any more.
Hate the Shamrocks, too. Frank was super talented back in his day, but he seems to be increasingly clueless as MMA develops. Anybody ever page through the lions den fighting book thing? I'd get murderized if I tried 80% of that nonsense.
Things evolve for a reason. I, for one, enjoy and embrace change. Caveat: 50/50 guard is another ryan hall marketing joke.
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 16:02
#18
You honestly think what happened 20 years ago doesn't count anymore? That's quite a bold statement. I'll leave it at that.
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 16:06
#19
ps.. It's The Beatles.
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 17:05
#20
I totally think that. Aside from the obvious building upon the past, people like Tank Abbot and Jerry Bohlander are totally irrelevant in today's MMA. I was a huuuuge Gracie fan in high school, but they refused to adapt and change their style.
Ironic, isn't it? They're famous for adapting and changing a form of Judo. lol
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 17:11
#21
So you'd rather learn a triangle choke technique from Manhoef a kickboxer who tko'd Sakuraba...seems logical. And as far as the Gracie's not being relevant in ADCC, that's simply not true, there hasn't been an ADCC without a member of the Gracie Clan placing, and with the exception of 2003 there were at least two that placed in each tournament.
11th dan in Parnes Jiu-Jitsu, it's one more than Ransom's. Real PJJ goes to 11!
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 17:35
#22
The part about Manhoef was half joking, my point was that he destroyed Saku--ergo: I'd rather learn from him.
As for the Gracies and ADCC...please, man. They haven't been anything for a decade. Just having a member of your MASSIVE family place in the tournament doesn't make you important. That's similar to saying that if somebody from a gym with 1000 people makes it to the UFC, that gym becomes a force within the sport. Not true.
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 18:08
#23
I was just rebutting your point about them being relevant in ADCC. The Gracie family is still quite relevant in the Grappling world and with Roger, Rolles, and Ralek starting into the MMA game I would say the family still has relevance in MMA, as well as the fact that many top guys in MMA have had or still have Gracies as their coaches. Saying that the Gracies are irrelevant in MMA is a pretty absurd statement.
11th dan in Parnes Jiu-Jitsu, it's one more than Ransom's. Real PJJ goes to 11!
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 18:27
#24
If Royce Gracie and Matt Hughes both did a BJJ seminar on the same day... I'd go to Royce's.
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 18:38
#25
LF CAPT. #048
I'm just going to say this, a building isn't worth shit without a good foundation. Regardless of how tall it grows, without a base it's not strong. While I know their GJJ wasn't the entire picture, they also know this and state it even in this video.
I found the breakdown to be excellent, and while it was self-promoting... it was a great look at the sequence and why it worked, how it worked, which things Fabricio avoided and used to his advantage etc.
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 19:37
#26
LF ARMY #073
Bulleteater, are you saying that the Gracie family isn't relevant in MMA today or that the style of Gracie (Brazilian) Jiu-Jitsu isn't relevant in MMA today? ...or both?
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 21:35
#27
The Gracies and Shamrocks laid the foundation for MMA. If it weren't for them we'd still be wondering if Karate or Kung Fu was the better art.
I like Franks commentary too, and its kinda funny how he always gets into a pissing match with that other dude(not the guy from Pride).
Tue, 06/29/2010 - 23:52
#28
The gracies like the Beatles. Give me Black Sabbath and Don Frye any day.
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 00:07
#29
How about Zeppelin and Sakuraba!
Wed, 06/30/2010 - 05:13
#30
I like the Beatles and Pantera.
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Eight minutes to explain a ten second move? The Gracies are 100% irrelevant in MMA and have nothing to do with this fight. Does every striking coach reteach the overhand right after Fedor kills somebody with it? God, I hate the Gracies.
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