Kettlebells all you need?
I am new to this forum and I saw a few very good post. I am a 51 year old martial artist and I live in the Netherlands.
Since the age off 15 I have practice all kinds off martial arts and since I dont compete anymore my focus is now on things that I think will work in a real streetfight (Jeet Kune Do in my case).
So I want to be in as good shape as I can be the whole year long.
True all these years I never have bordered to much about supplementary training, we just did the normal push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups, some handstand and cartwheels sometimes for fun and running two times a week.
Since Internet I got confused about my supplementary training, you read so much different stuff and off course I have tried most off them, from low-weight lotts off reps, to heavy weights low reps, 5/3/1, Royal Court etc.
Sometimes these routines were so stressfull that I needed the next day some rest so at the end off the story I ended up training only the supplementary stuff because I didnt have any energy left for my martial arts training.
Then I bought some kettlebells, one off 20 and one off 24 kilo. I started with ETK from Pavel but after some time I get bored doiing only the get-ups, swings etc.
Then I read on all these other forums that you cant get strong with only kettlebells. Is this true?
I dont want to be a bodybuilder orso, I just want to get stronger and looking more athletic. I saw some good kettlebell routines on this forum with 2 kettlebells. Can I do these with the different weights that I have?
And is there a good routine wereby you get stronger, looking better and dont take hours (because I have to train my martial arts to), and as everybody else I have a busy job, family etc.?
I want to train my martial arts 2-3 times a week, and then train with kettlebells 2 times a week, but also want to incoperate my running (sprinting for about 15-20 minutes).
Every monday evening I train a group off adults so thats the only day I cannot train myself and sunday is not a good day to.
So the first question is, can I train only with kettlebells and getting stronger? And if so can somebody help me with putting together a weekly rouine wereby I can train all these things that I mentioned above?
O, I forgot to say that I like the pull-up, dips and push-ups very much to so it will be great if I can incoperate these to.
And what about abdominal training? Do you guys thing that it is needed to do that to?
Sorry for all these questions but I got so confused about all these things they say on Internet and it seems that here are very serious guys on this forum.
Any help is more then welcome.
Kettlebells are cool and you can get a good workout with them. However in my experience and a lot of other people I've talked to a basic barbell routine is the best for strength training. Like Miklo said stick with the basic compound lifts ie ATG Squats, bench, deadlift, press and powercleans. You should also check out rosstraining.com for a whole range of different routines and inspiration.
11th dan in Parnes Jiu-Jitsu, it's one more than Ransom's. Real PJJ goes to 11!
I think it's possible to improve your strength using kettlebells and bodyweight exercises.
I would agree with the previous posters in that generally it's faster and more straightforward to gain pure strength using barbells and dumbbells.
Are you happy with your maximal strength or are you looking to add strength-endurance? Kettlebells are well suited to that purpose.
If you're adamant about using Kettlebells exclusively I'd look at getting some heavier bells, at least one 32 kg bell. I fight at 125 lbs (56.8 kg) and I use a 32 kg bell for many exercises (swings, mostly).
If you want a good fast kettlebell workout try the steve maxwell 300 kettlebell workout it takes about 30-45 min.But since you do jkd this is what i think you want
as for a workout plan try this
tue=body weight
wed =plyo
thur= this
then friday and sat
do your kettlebells last then you have 2 days to recover with some yoga or deep stretching.
hope this helps
Wow! Thank you guys for all the info.
Yes I know, to get realy strong you have to use lotts off weights. I even read somewere that you have to deadlift twice your weight, bench press 1,5 your weight etc.
But that isnt what I am looking for. Personally I dont like it when martial artist llok like bodybuilders. I think to much time is spend then on supplementary training. nd when I have to train with ketlebells and then next to it with barbells/dumbells to I think its to much.
Its not that I want to get realy strong because, and this is not to brag, most off the times when I so spar or somethink like that, I am just to fast or to mean to loose. I cant imagine that I ever had to use brute strength to controll my opponent and I sparred a lott.
I think its maybay because off my age. I dont do spectaculair things anymore, I dont use more techniques that is neccasary. Its because I train for the street and not for competition.
Off course when I am on my own I like to go overborded and do some difficult kicks etc, just for the fun.
But now I am on a point wereby I notice that its getting harder to be in shape. I dont want to bea a martial arts teacher who is overweightes or has no conditioning because I dont expect that from my pupils also.
So I good, solid routine, maybay a combination off kettlebells and bodyweight like pul-ups, push-ups, dips etc. would be great.
Does someone have such a sort off routine?
When I have to train with barbell I cant go that heavy because I train at home so my maximal weight is about 120 kilo on the barbell.
And then again, I dont ave a spotter so when I go to heavy it can be dangerous.
Does somebody have heart from www.bar-barians.com
These guys use only bodyweight execises and they are realy strong.
Maybay that is a option? But still I want to incoperate some kettlebells into my workout because I like these things. But when I have to train with bodyweight and the next day with kettlebells that takes to much time so I combination would be great.
Last qestion, when I am on this discussion board and I want to go to the next page it takes ages. Does anybody know what could be the problem?
Again, thank you very much you all, Realy appriciated your input.
"But that isnt what I am looking for. Personally I dont like it when martial artist llok like bodybuilders."
This is a huge myth that many people don't understand. Lifting weights will not make you big like a body building. To get bigger you have to eat in caloric excess. Training the barbell and increasing weight will make you stronger, increase your stamina and improve overall bone and ligament health which IMO is very important especially as you get older.
11th dan in Parnes Jiu-Jitsu, it's one more than Ransom's. Real PJJ goes to 11!
Hello MrBungle,
thanks again for reacting. Off course I know that to get big you have to eat big. But I think that training strength is a little bit overated by martial artist.
I think that a lott off martial artist are better off when they take more time to perfect their technique, timing, speed etc.
Off course the discussion off about wheter strengthtraining is necasary or not will never end. Same with what is better, training with weights, training with kettlebells or training with bodyweight only.
Personally I think speed is much more important then strength but when you read workout forums they all want a strengthroutine to supplement their martial arts training. Almost never they ask about how to develop speed etc.
Off course I now that I started this thread asking the same thing. But for me I think its a little bit different.
I have put in lot off hours in training martial arts, when I was younger I trained everyday and even now I train a lott.
I think I have a resaenoble speed technique etc (but still train these items, we can always get better 
The only thing that I dont have experience with is to get more toned etc. to stay in good shape.
Sometimes I think that I could better train they way I always have done, so run 2 times a week, train martial arts and do a lott off rounds on the heavy bag, But again, I have experience how it is to train with kettlebells so I think that would be a good tool, at least for me, to get that toning etc, that I am looking for.
And the push-ups, dips, pull-ups are just the things that I always have done.
I dont like it to much to train with heavy weights, I dont know why. I think its to boring for me.
So maybay I wasnt to clear in my previous post about what I want, sorry for that. Hope I have cleared some things up now.
Hello MrBungle,
thanks again for reacting. Off course I know that to get big you have to eat big. But I think that training strength is a little bit overated by martial artist.
I think that a lott off martial artist are better off when they take more time to perfect their technique, timing, speed etc.
Off course the discussion off about wheter strengthtraining is necasary or not will never end. Same with what is better, training with weights, training with kettlebells or training with bodyweight only.
Personally I think speed is much more important then strength but when you read workout forums they all want a strengthroutine to supplement their martial arts training. Almost never they ask about how to develop speed etc.
Off course I now that I started this thread asking the same thing. But for me I think its a little bit different.
I have put in lot off hours in training martial arts, when I was younger I trained everyday and even now I train a lott.
I think I have a resaenoble speed technique etc (but still train these items, we can always get better
The only thing that I dont have experience with is to get more toned etc. to stay in good shape.
Sometimes I think that I could better train they way I always have done, so run 2 times a week, train martial arts and do a lott off rounds on the heavy bag, But again, I have experience how it is to train with kettlebells so I think that would be a good tool, at least for me, to get that toning etc, that I am looking for.
And the push-ups, dips, pull-ups are just the things that I always have done.
I dont like it to much to train with heavy weights, I dont know why. I think its to boring for me.
So maybay I wasnt to clear in my previous post about what I want, sorry for that. Hope I have cleared some things up now.
I agree that technique is the most important thing to train and I don't think you'll find anyone who disagrees with that. However if you want to increase you speed that sir is strength training. Kettlebells, bodyweight stuff is great but you will eventually have to increase weight on them. Out of curiosity what type of weight training have you done and what do you find boring about them as opposed to kettlebells and body weight exercises?
11th dan in Parnes Jiu-Jitsu, it's one more than Ransom's. Real PJJ goes to 11!
When I have to do 3-4 sets off 12-15 reps off 5-6 different exercises.
I know that you can train for example 3 sets off 5 but I read everywere (there you have it again..) that heavy strength training has nothing to do with martial arts but that you have to build muscle strength/endurance.
I even read that for example Bas Rutten swears by doiing 3 sets off 25 dips, curls etc.
So that I find boring.
Personally I feel great when I know I've gotten stronger, and the stronger I get the harder I seem to be able to hit. Lots of upsides to getting stronger, though the extra muscle you put on will make you get tired faster (at least at first)
if its speed and power you want then check out this website
they have resistance band that go up to 300 pounds of resistance.
they have something for every way you work out, like the power push up will go up 300 pounds of resistance.
think about that one.. doing push ups like that will make you a beast.
as for you not wanting to do your workouts on split days, if you are doing body weight one day then plyo then weights your building a solid foundation because one leads to the next. But if doing all in the same day is what you want then still follow that order.
"When I have to do 3-4 sets off 12-15 reps off 5-6 different exercises."
That sounds like a body builders routine and not a strength training routine. Strength traing routines generally run 3x5 or 5x5 working sets. Check out Mark Rippetoe's Starting Strength routine its 3 days a week 3 lifts a day and you can be done in about 40 mins. Out of curiosity what does your kettlebell routine look like and what makes it less boring?
" I read everywere (there you have it again..) that heavy strength training has nothing to do with martial arts but that you have to build muscle strength/endurance."
Where are you reading this? Are these people strength and conditioning trainers? Strength comes from lifting heavy and if its endurance you are after the best way to do that is bag/pad work and sparring. I think it was Gotch who said most of your conditioning work should come from actually doing the sport. If you are really interested in strength and conditioning look to strength and conditioning coaches like Martin Rooney, Mark Rippetoe etc, these guys know what they are talking about and produce top quality athletes.
11th dan in Parnes Jiu-Jitsu, it's one more than Ransom's. Real PJJ goes to 11!
Thanks guys, lotts off info again.
The guy who said to use lotts off reps is for example Bas Rutten.
I think he knows what he is talking about.
I agree that when you train yuor strength you feel better, but I want to be a good martial artist and I dont have hours a day to spend on training.
So the training that I do have to be as economical as possible. I have read some things from Rippetoe, that stuff seems very good. Maybay I will that sort off routines a try. Brooks kubik is a guy who like short but intense trainingsessions to.
Right now I follow Ener the Kettlebell from Pavel Tsouline, lotts off swings and Turkisch Get-ups. I can understand why the swing is good for conditioning but I think its better, for me, to do some full-out sprints.
I agree with this. I also think it would be useful for fighters/martial artists to embrace some tenets of bodybuilding if they compete on any level. Bodybuiling incorporates both building muscle and fat loss, and it's to a fighter's advantage to have a greater proportion of muscle to fat when competeing within a weight class.
For the question of kettlebells, you can certainly increase strength using them independently. I'm of the opinion that you can realize strength gain with any (or no) equipment, as long as you manipulate volume accordingly. That being said, I'd rather have a bar and two 20kg plates.
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I have never liked kettlebells very much personally, I had to learn about them when I got my personal training certification and I thought they were just the new fad. I would say stick to the basics for MA conditioning if your not trying to look like Overeem. Pushups, pullups, stretching, general bodyweight stuff, running, maybe lift a 2-3 times a week, basic benchpress squat deadlift military press etc. Kicking works your abs, for ab exercises I like hanging leg raises the best. This way you will improve your conditioning but won't be too wiped out for your JKD training.