MMA - CSI (The Wiggins Arm Bar Set Up 1)
A while back, Chaz asked what fellow lockflowers had been working on (http://www.lockflow.com/forum/topic/lfrs-what-are-you-working-these-days).
I mentioned that I'd been working on Atypical Arm Bar Defenses... well perhaps not in those words exactly but, I've been working on them nonetheless. At any rate, I've done a closer examination of the various set ups and have been working on defeating a specific set up that my friend Joe Wiggins has been terrorizing the gym with. It's a Kimura Set Up from Guard that becomes an Arm Bar (although, the way he uses it, it can equally be finished with 3 other related options).
I've taken detailed photos and explained the set up as best as I can and published them all in my most recent blog post here: http://damagecontrolmma.com/mma-techniques-the-mat-wars-saga-episode-1/
For those of you who are interested, I'd love to hear your takes on the subject of defenses and counters. I've got a few things that I've been working on but they're not fleshed out to a point that I'm comfortable with.
On a separate note, I think his set up is pretty cool. In fact I'd love the thing if all I ever did was use it, which I do when the opportunity presents itself. But the truth is, I find myself on the recieving end far more often.
My problem is, as soon as you put your weight down and flatten out, Joe will move to North South for you and catch you with a Kimura Roll Sweep. I'd rather be finished on top than finished from beneath so I keep my weight off of him and try to posture as best as possible while still defending the Kimura.
I tried to find a video of this sweep but don't have time at the moment. Basically the guy on the bottom aligns his spine in a parallel or stright light with your own (North South) while keep in the Kimura grip. In this case, Joe would then bridge and roll towards the entagled arm and now you're on bottom.
One of my training partners uses a similar attack to this. The way I defend it is as I'm passing I posture up slightly and turn towards my arm that is being attacked. This gives me just enough space to slip my arm back in front of me. If the guy holds the grip I lock my hands together and torque my arm up and towards his hand which will either result in him letting go or getting caught in a wierd shoulder lock similar to a twl/americana.
11th dan in Parnes Jiu-Jitsu, it's one more than Ransom's. Real PJJ goes to 11!
Historically Mr. Bungle, what you've mentioned has worked the best. But it's not the highest percentage counter with this cat for me. I'm about 145 and he's rockin about 190. He's able to put enough pressure on the Kimura threat to keep me tilted forward and off balance which effects my ability to maneuver as well as to posture up. When I can posture up, it's all about seeing it coming on early and applying the reverse Kimura right away.
It'd probably be a different story if we were the same size. But we're not. So I'm looking for ways to compensate. Besides anything that works with a 45 pound disadvantage will probably work well when weights are equal.
Hmmmm......... maybe one answer is to commit more to the Reverse Kimura and to not be so stubborn about staying on top... Grrrr MMA habits die hard. But I'm willing to experiment. Next time Joe T-wraps my arm, I'ma twist and lay down on my back to finish the Reverse Kimura vs just trying to get him to let go.
Yeah weight disadvantages can be annoying. Sometimes its just best to concede the sweep. Have you tried to hop over to the other side like an omoplata defense?
11th dan in Parnes Jiu-Jitsu, it's one more than Ransom's. Real PJJ goes to 11!
There's an arm bar waiting for me there as well. But the difference is, now i'm underneath the guy and on the bottom. 
This particular set up is a serious pickle. Thanks for brainstorming ideas with me though. The dialectic is very helpful.
He's armbarring you when you try to jump to the side? I would love to see how he sets that up. Let me know if you figure out the defense.
11th dan in Parnes Jiu-Jitsu, it's one more than Ransom's. Real PJJ goes to 11!
Had a chance to work on committing to the Reverse Kimura. I went all the way to putting my back on the mat. It forced him to release his grip and then a scramble ensued. It was effective at preventing the eventual arm bar. But I'm still not satisfied having to give up the top for a scramble and a possible reversal. That being said, it's good to take a step back once and again. I used to go fot the Reverse Kimura like this with a lot less hesitation in my younger days. Any port in a storm I suppose.
Glad to see your getting away from the arm bar, Try bridging hard to the side. Make him work hard for the position "catch wrestling style"
Always!
He'll be competing in a submission only tournament on Saturday. No time limits, not points. I'm hoping to see that move of his deal out some punishment to someone else for a change.
Always!
He'll be competing in a submission only tournament on Saturday. No time limits, not points. I'm hoping to see that move of his deal out some punishment to someone else for a change.
Always!
He'll be competing in a submission only tournament on Saturday. No time limits, not points. I'm hoping to see that move of his deal out some punishment to someone else for a change.
Try this out. Let me know if you need me to elaborate on any of the details, I shot it kinda quick.
11th dan in Parnes Jiu-Jitsu, it's one more than Ransom's. Real PJJ goes to 11!
You had me at "overhook his leg so he can't hop over".
I'm salavating at this. It has real potential! Thanks for the R&D! Can't wait to unleash it!
Sorry for the shouting. So excited!
Glad you're excited hope it works out for you! Loud Noises!
11th dan in Parnes Jiu-Jitsu, it's one more than Ransom's. Real PJJ goes to 11!
Hope I get a chance to work it on him tonight. He just won 1st in his division (advanced 185lbs) and took second in advanced 205lbs+ last weekend.
He used his set up to keep his first opponent on defense and prevented the guard pass.
In the 205 division, he used it to finish one of his opponents. You can see it in the highlight video, unfortunately we had 3 other guys on the mat at the same time and only swung the camera around to catch the fininsh. The set up was identical to the pictures in the post though.
http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=33230809
Hope I get a chance to work it on him tonight. He just won 1st in his division (advanced 185lbs) and took second in advanced 205lbs+ last weekend.
He used his set up to keep his first opponent on defense and prevented the guard pass.
In the 205 division, he used it to finish one of his opponents. You can see it in the highlight video, unfortunately we had 3 other guys on the mat at the same time and only swung the camera around to catch the fininsh. The set up was identical to the pictures in the post though.
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Had a chance to work your magic tonight Mr. Bungle.
1 attempted Kimura set up = 1 passed guard. We have proof of concept.
When I stopped him I actually started to laugh out loud. It was so subtle, I don't think he realized that the linchpin upon which his whole offensive strategy has been based, just got out moded.
I knew I'd find some new ideas with the dev group here. Thank you very much. Now to repeat and confirm the experiment.
Had a chance to work your magic tonight Mr. Bungle.
1 attempted Kimura set up = 1 passed guard. We have proof of concept.
When I stopped him I actually started to laugh out loud. It was so subtle, I don't think he realized that the linchpin upon which his whole offensive strategy has been based, just got out moded.
I knew I'd find some new ideas with the dev group here. Thank you very much. Now to repeat and confirm the experiment.
Please tell me it was an evil maniacal laugh!
11th dan in Parnes Jiu-Jitsu, it's one more than Ransom's. Real PJJ goes to 11!
No. I hate to dissappoint you but it wasn't. It was a momentary burst of elation part because it worked so well, and part because he didn't notice it really. I've got a smile on my face right now just thinking about the fact that he's going about his day right now, none the wiser and not realizing that his whole game is about to unravel and he won't really know why. At least for a while. 
Oh well, internal chuckles can be evil and maniacal and that is how I will at least picture it in my mind.
11th dan in Parnes Jiu-Jitsu, it's one more than Ransom's. Real PJJ goes to 11!
Had two more opportunities to test out this counter today. First time I got swept with the arm pinned in Kimura type sweep. Second time I anticipated it and thwarted his sweep attempt and eventually passed guard and took top position.
So far the count for 3 real world applications is:
2 successful counters
1 failure
When did the sweep occur?
11th dan in Parnes Jiu-Jitsu, it's one more than Ransom's. Real PJJ goes to 11!
After I got the overhook on the leg and was in the process of stepping over his legs. Weight was heavy on my right side so that I could step over with my left leg. He had my right arm T-wrapped. I was swept over my right side.
If you use your video as a reference, the sweep would have occured at about :51/:52 seconds in. But the sweep would be over your left side as opposed to your right as your parter has a T-wrap on your left arm.
So as you stepped into the semi mount position he rolled you with a trap and roll type sweep to the locked arm? Was your right foot trapped at all?
11th dan in Parnes Jiu-Jitsu, it's one more than Ransom's. Real PJJ goes to 11!
Exactly. My right foot was not trapped physically but because all my weight was on it so that I could step over with my left, it was, for all intents and purposes trapped. His timing was perfect. Remember, his set up is dynamic and allows for multiple simultaneous attacks, including the sweep he uses.
This is the pass i was saying, watch at the end when he switchs his hips.
I think Mr. Bungle is on the right track.
Ok I think I see where your mistake is. Instead of shifting your weight to the side one your leg shift it to the shoulder. Notice in the vid my weight is more on my shoulder as i drive into him, my leg is still pretty mobile so I can readjust my base. The second thing is that it sounds like you are stepping over to high, don't step over into full mount, step over his knee/lower thigh and pinch his legs together tight, this should kill his bridge long enough for you to free your arm.
11th dan in Parnes Jiu-Jitsu, it's one more than Ransom's. Real PJJ goes to 11!
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Let's try the catch wrestling idea of make your man carry your weight. Try sprawling here in this part ,take your free arm and reach from behind his knee and grab his free foot/ankle and lock it in your elbow and hold on to the top of his leg. Now sit out on your hip so that you are resting your weight on the kumira,stay sprawled while moving toward north/south. This i just an idea so dont hold me to it just yet
i will try this for real on friday to help figure if this works