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new to submisson grappling

njdevils2666's picture
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im a senior in highschool and am finishing up my 8th year of wrestling. I plan to start doing submisson grappling tournaments once the season ends and i was wondering if there is any really important tips for making the switch from wrestling to submissoin grappling.

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the submissions and the ability to fight from your back?

hard sparring session is like a cold shower in a warm day. It feels good.

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jhineman74's picture
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Your athleticism will help you alot in no-gi. Learn the basics first, ie: passing the guard, mounting, armbar, guilitine. There are alot of techniques out there that look flashy and require alot of experience to pull them off. Don't get frustrated, submission fighting is about learning to defend first, then developing your own style of offense. Dont be afraid to tap, no matter how lose you think the submission may be, just tap, reset and go at it again. Before you know it, you will be tapping everyone. Good Luck.

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jhineman74 wrote:
Your athleticism will help you alot in no-gi. Learn the basics first, ie: passing the guard, mounting, armbar, guilitine. There are alot of techniques out there that look flashy and require alot of experience to pull them off. Don't get frustrated, submission fighting is about learning to defend first, then developing your own style of offense. Dont be afraid to tap, no matter how lose you think the submission may be, just tap, reset and go at it again. Before you know it, you will be tapping everyone. Good Luck.

follow this advice. very good. learn to escape. at least two escapes for armbars, triangles, darce, rear naked choke. drill them hundreds of times each. with your wrestling you will be controlling them anyway.
and learn how to do the armbar from top, bottom, side. learn darce choke, guillotine, triangle choke.
oh, learn couple escapes from ankle locks. wrestlers get caught in these very easily.
ego at the door. losing is learning.

njdevils2666's picture
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jhineman74 wrote:
Your athleticism will help you alot in no-gi. Learn the basics first, ie: passing the guard, mounting, armbar, guilitine. There are alot of techniques out there that look flashy and require alot of experience to pull them off. Don't get frustrated, submission fighting is about learning to defend first, then developing your own style of offense. Dont be afraid to tap, no matter how lose you think the submission may be, just tap, reset and go at it again. Before you know it, you will be tapping everyone. Good Luck.

so quick question for you. should i attack as i would in a normal wrestling match or should i be a bit more laid back and defend?

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njdevils2666 wrote:
jhineman74 wrote:
Your athleticism will help you alot in no-gi. Learn the basics first, ie: passing the guard, mounting, armbar, guilitine. There are alot of techniques out there that look flashy and require alot of experience to pull them off. Don't get frustrated, submission fighting is about learning to defend first, then developing your own style of offense. Dont be afraid to tap, no matter how lose you think the submission may be, just tap, reset and go at it again. Before you know it, you will be tapping everyone. Good Luck.

so quick question for you. should i attack as i would in a normal wrestling match or should i be a bit more laid back and defend?


this is where practise comes in. bjj or grapplers in general sometimes bait wrestlers to shoot in. while they shoot in, they are being victims to a submission. like a guillotine, darce, peruvian etc. so, there you have to becareful. as time goes by, you will learn if you fake a shoot and they respond to it. than you go for it. little cat and mouse i guess. but, there are better experienced grapplers here to help. but, i am also guessing your takedowns are good.

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njdevils2666 wrote:
jhineman74 wrote:
Your athleticism will help you alot in no-gi. Learn the basics first, ie: passing the guard, mounting, armbar, guilitine. There are alot of techniques out there that look flashy and require alot of experience to pull them off. Don't get frustrated, submission fighting is about learning to defend first, then developing your own style of offense. Dont be afraid to tap, no matter how lose you think the submission may be, just tap, reset and go at it again. Before you know it, you will be tapping everyone. Good Luck.

so quick question for you. should i attack as i would in a normal wrestling match or should i be a bit more laid back and defend?

That's more of a style question, some guys have a very aggressive style while others are more laid back.

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Feel free to control your opponent. Position / Lockdown / Submission, follow those steps and you will be fine. Trying to pull off a submission before you complete the first two will do a few things, 1. Injure your training partner 2. Injure yourself 3. Injure both of you.

njdevils2666's picture
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kelby wrote:
i am also guessing your takedowns are good.

my takedowns are ok, im a JV/Varsity wrestler. my leg attacks are decent enough to work, high-c being my best leg attack. but im more of an upper body guy, collar steals, 2 on 1, snap, arm drag etc..

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I would say: Don't ever forget where you came from.

As a wrestler, you will, most often, be able to dictate where the fight takes place. The first thing you learn in any submission grappling art is position. For you, that should already be second nature. You'll quickly learn what techniques in your existing arsenal are no longer viable, and which can still be used for effect. Basically, be open to anything new, but build on what you already have.

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CombatChaz wrote:
njdevils2666 wrote:
jhineman74 wrote:
Your athleticism will help you alot in no-gi. Learn the basics first, ie: passing the guard, mounting, armbar, guilitine. There are alot of techniques out there that look flashy and require alot of experience to pull them off. Don't get frustrated, submission fighting is about learning to defend first, then developing your own style of offense. Dont be afraid to tap, no matter how lose you think the submission may be, just tap, reset and go at it again. Before you know it, you will be tapping everyone. Good Luck.

so quick question for you. should i attack as i would in a normal wrestling match or should i be a bit more laid back and defend?

That's more of a style question, some guys have a very aggressive style while others are more laid back.

Chaz is 100% on the money about this. Some guys are very successful being super aggressive and some guys are more successful with a relaxed style.

And I've seen aggressive wrestling styles and relaxed wrestling styles, so the style that works for you in wrestling is probably what's going to work for you in submission grappling.

A word of caution though: being super aggressive can lead to being sloppy, so if you're going to be super aggressive, make sure that you do it in a very technical way (a black belt at my school is like this, murder aggressive but always technical).

I'd recommend finding a quality grappling school. Whether it's Sambo, Catch, or BJJ is really a matter of personal preference, but make sure that the instructors are qualified and technical. That will help you more than any of our advice can.

-Marshal

njdevils2666's picture
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I just want to thank you guys for all of your advicer

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A guy I train with uses the low single, or ankle pick at grappling events. Keeps him safe and gets easy points. He's won NAGA, and another big event here in Missouri with just wrestling. He has enough knowledge not to get caught in subs. He trained with a Black Belt every chance he got for like 6 months when he first started Jiu Jitsu and learned how to avoid every basic sub known. Now he is slowly learning how to apply the subs, but rarely uses them. He will not go for a sub and give up position. Position before submission is the best advice for grappling.

njdevils2666's picture
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Gibb wrote:
A guy I train with uses the low single, or ankle pick at grappling events. Keeps him safe and gets easy points. He's won NAGA, and another big event here in Missouri with just wrestling. He has enough knowledge not to get caught in subs. He trained with a Black Belt every chance he got for like 6 months when he first started Jiu Jitsu and learned how to avoid every basic sub known. Now he is slowly learning how to apply the subs, but rarely uses them. He will not go for a sub and give up position. Position before submission is the best advice for grappling.

thats actually good to hear, i have an ok low single and i plan on doing NAGA here in Chicago in April and C3 in Indian in March with the little training i have besides wrestling jsut as a gauge.

what class should i go with just a wrestling background?

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You have alot of wrestling, so they might want you to do Intermediate. I would do beginner if they would let you. You have to much wrestling for novice. I think they ask how much wrestling you've had when you sign up. So they might make you do a higher skill level.

njdevils2666's picture
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well i don't think they'll put me in intermediate because i have no submission technique or defense. just wrestling.

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njdevils2666 wrote:
well i don't think they'll put me in intermediate because i have no submission technique or defense. just wrestling.

Learn some submission stuff before jumping into a tournament, especially a tournament like NAGA where virtually every submission is legal. You don't need to sit out for 6 months because you didn't know you were in danger of having your leg ripped off.

-Marshal

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Gibb wrote:
You have alot of wrestling, so they might want you to do Intermediate. I would do beginner if they would let you. You have to much wrestling for novice. I think they ask how much wrestling you've had when you sign up. So they might make you do a higher skill level.

I disagree. 8 years of wrestling IMO would qualify for intermediate at the least.

On a side note, do what you do. Use your wrestling to its full advantage. My advice would be to start in taking grappling classes in some type of ground fighting art (sambo, bjj, etc) Wrestling will help you tons, but there's still a whole other world out there. Good luck, make sure to keep us updated on how your training and competition goes.

BTW, welcome to lockflow! Hope you stick around with us, just sent you a friend request! :)

-Jimmy

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First off, welcome to Lockflow. You will find this a great place with some amazingly helpful people.

As someone who came into the sport with a wrestling background myself, let me echo what several others have said: remember where you came from, use your wrestling to your benefit, and find some quality instruction to help you learn the rest of the game.

One thing that wrestlers tend to have a problem with is learning to relax. I am not talking about aggressiveness here, but rather the ability to simply relax, breathe, and move from position to position. In wrestling almost all of the movements are dynamic and explosive, in the submission game, many are relaxed and 'creeping'. All too often, wrestlers, even with what is often superior fitness, will find themselves gassed three minutes into the match. The trick is to learn how to relax and only be explosive when it is to your advantage.

Good luck in your first competition.

Dave

Alive MMA/Brazilian Top Team
Portland, OR

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1) Roll with guys who are significantly better than you are. Your wrestling experience will make it fun for them but they will also have a field day and sub you with all kinds of crazy stuff. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT!!!! You are going to have to learn how/when to tap in a learning environment NOT a competitive environment.

2) Your wrestling experience will give you a strong top game right out of the shoot. This is awesome but KEEP IT SIMPLE!!! Pass, mount, choke, and repeat as needed. It is better to be an inch wide and a mile deep than a mile wide and an inch deep.

3) Find someone who loves to fight off their back and loves to teach. Learn from them. Don't learn to fight off your back but learn how to crush them.

Also keep in mind this story: I'm not the greatest ground fighter, even by Judo standards. I got the chance to introduce a recently graduated NCAA collegiate wrestler to the submission game. He had much better spatial awareness and weight control from the top than I did so I pulled guard and gave him fits for the rest of the night. Odds are this will happen to you too but don’t be discouraged. You will learn to crush guys like me soon enough.

Good hunting.

To me, Judo is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers knock each other down.

njdevils2666's picture
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i just wanna personally thank all you guys for your advice and your welcome! i plan on using this site alot to stay in touch and will keep you guys informed on things are going if you're interested. i'm still in wrestling season as of now and with the looks of our team we won't be done until mid/late febuaray (we have a decent chance to defend our state championship). So i won't be able to fully train any submission stuff until then. but on a side note, Terry Martin lives in our town and works out with us, along with his son who is a tallent at wrestling. i've been talking with him and he agreed to show me some basic stuff after practice every once in a while until i can train more often.

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Im with ptbeast. I came into the sport of MMA as a wrestler and I was able to fend off most submissions from white and blue belts at my first bjj class due to tight positioning alone but once they figured me out I was getting caught in guillotines etc. from being over aggressive.

The hardest thing for a wrestler to learn is to willingly go to your back so you wont get choked. Get comfy on your back, learn some sweeps and escapes so when you end up there you wont panic.

-Adam Mays "Courage is endurance for one moment more" "If size mattered, the elephant would be the king of the jungle." FREESTYLE AMERICAN SHOOT TEAM Thanks to eagles for the sig!

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You should attack, take people down pin, control and ride them. This will carry you in your first tournaments.

"Ask me no questions, and I will tell you no lies!" Adage

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." - American Wisdom/ Lincoln

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I doubt this will be a problem for you, but wrestlers do tend to have a bad rep for coming into grappling classes and being way to rough, ive seen several times where a wrestler comes in his first day and ends up hurting someone within an hour because they are going 110% the entire time and focused only on winning.

As everyone has said losing is a GREAT thing, One of the first things i learned was that i learn more when i lose than when i win, so roll with people of all different skill levels and NEVER be afraid to tap, losing is the fastest way to knowledge, especially when you are first starting out.

and dont be afraid to ask someone what you did wrong, anytime i roll with one of the higher belts at the end of every roll i ask them what i did wrong and what i did right and they are always more than happy to tell me.

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Just DO NOT give up your back, learn some subs, and you'll be fine. Smile

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I have some advice that I keep having to give to wrestlers at our club. First, however, I need to run to Walgreens to buy something to eat. I'll be right back with my excellent advice.

ونحن جميعا الكتب من الدم ، وعندما أردنا فتح نحن الحمراء.

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Ok. When you're rolling, don't wrestle. Don't be on top, don't be trying desperately to grind the person on the bottom and use your strength and cardio--that's submission grappling, not jiu jiusu. Fight off your back using techinique, not strength. If you know how to avoid gi chokes and sweeps from different angles, etc., you don't need to freak out and try to crush people to the mat. That only works up until you grapple good blue belts and maybe a purple belt or two. When you're rolling with purples, browns, and blacks you will be at a distinct disadvantage than other people at your level because they will have been relying on technique instead of wrestling. I see it all the time. Wrestlers who have transitioned will get caught in silly submissions or tied up in things that any white belt learns yet they'll be baffled. Recognize the difference between the two sports. Think about it this way: if a blue belt in bjj started wrestling would you advise him to pull guard and lay on his back/side often? He'd definitely need to learn wrestling from the bottom up or get beat very often....same rules apply coming from wrestling to rolling.

ونحن جميعا الكتب من الدم ، وعندما أردنا فتح نحن الحمراء.

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Good advice bulleteater! And that is awesome about Terry Martin! Good luck with the transition and definitely keep us informed. I had no base style when I started Jiu Jitsu and I am not sure if it worked to my advantage or not, but I have learned SO many things from this site!

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