reality based self defense
i have a friend that is getting into rbsd with another instructor (bullshido). he is getting some decent basics but he is missing alot of important stuff. he is bigger than most anyone in our circle so the details that are missing he compensates for through brute strength. also he is a bit pig headed when getting suggestions. apparently the guy he is getting the techniques from (that lives 3 states away) is the end all, be all. i am not a reality based guru, but having worked with military and law enforcement guys, as well as my past karate and jui jitsu experience, so i feel i can offer some valid input. he just shrugs it off.
how do i put the brakes on the long distance learning stuff and get him to, at the very least, research credible material. the guy he is getting the materials from is WELL KNOWN for being a charlatan.
if you cant beat them, arrange to have them beaten.
-george carlin
lol, who is the charlatan?
disclaimer: I am not a fighter, coach, or blackbelt. I am a nerd with a laptop and an internet connection who happens to love martial arts and MMA.
well lets just say he calls what he does "krav jitsu"
if you cant beat them, arrange to have them beaten.
-george carlin
disclaimer: I am not a fighter, coach, or blackbelt. I am a nerd with a laptop and an internet connection who happens to love martial arts and MMA.
no that is not him, he looks way to legit.
the guy i am speaking of lives near the east coast and is part of one of the "christian martial arts" networks. basically you send them your money and they send you a certificate and a newsletter awarding you rank. they do all that based on what you TELL them you can do. then you by their dvd's and send them a video of yourself doing whats on the vid. i got sucked into one of those traps a several years ago and spent a chunk of change.
my buddy has been working with this guy for a couple of years now. the dvd's he recently received were not even instruction from the "head" of the association. i refrain from mentioning the guy's name simply b/c i try not to put people on blast like that.
if you want to know his name i can pm it to you.
if you cant beat them, arrange to have them beaten.
-george carlin
I'd like to know his name. You've got me too curious!

If its bullshido might as well put him on blast.
disclaimer: I am not a fighter, coach, or blackbelt. I am a nerd with a laptop and an internet connection who happens to love martial arts and MMA.
that is the guy that "bought" the title and "style". the other guy that started the whole thing is pretty young.
if you cant beat them, arrange to have them beaten.
-george carlin
That key chain thing is pretty cool I guess, but what happens if a car jacker attacks while the keys are in the ignition?
Just show your friend why it doesn't work, I'm sure he will be persuaded if you can show him.
disclaimer: I am not a fighter, coach, or blackbelt. I am a nerd with a laptop and an internet connection who happens to love martial arts and MMA.
i try to give constructive criticisms here and there. but its like banging my head against a wall. i have been involved in MA for 15 years, so i know enough to contribute. but i would feel little jackass-ish to boldly correct someone. i just offer what i can and hope he catches on.
if you cant beat them, arrange to have them beaten.
-george carlin
There's no doubt that your years of training and experience is beneficial, but your friend might not have the same level of training you do. You shouldn't beat around the bush when safety is an issue, there's no time for it. Just tell him the honest truth.
disclaimer: I am not a fighter, coach, or blackbelt. I am a nerd with a laptop and an internet connection who happens to love martial arts and MMA.
Why do people even get involved in RBSD? It blows my mind. Even the best fighters in the world have a true base. Who are these clowns that come up with this crap. I think of RBSD as having a buddy take care of your dental work. The end result sore mouth. What's the point put the work in with a true certified instructor.
Doesn't he just really need to be proven wrong? You need to find a big wrestler for him to spar and just get held down and disheartened. Nothing kills that fight-skill fantasy like seeing it fail.
ونحن جميعا الكتب من الدم ، وعندما أردنا فتح نحن الحمراء.
i dont know much about this reality based fighting styles. it seems that the majority here is against learning by video. i had planned on getting the GJJ Combatives when i start grad school, because i will neither have time or money to find a local dojo or program. i am a karate brown belt in a christian martial art, but can trace my sokes lineage to okinawa, i only found 1 school that taught krav JJ? dont quite know what that is, but couldnt trace the lineage. doesnt seem to be affiliated with karate for christ or any othe large CMAA. i have trained mma for the last year, i really like it and want to continue. do you guys think that the videos for GJJ are worth the money if time and money will be an issue?
He who has faith has... an inward reservoir of courage, hope, confidence, calmness, and assuring trust that all will come out well - even though to the world it may appear to come out most badly.
B. C. Forbes
learning from videos is fine if you can grasp the concepts, but as said a million times, nothing beats being in a gym or school and actually practicing.
if you are looking for reality based content, look to tony blauer's S.P.E.A.R system or the dog brothers.
krav jitsu is a label that salesmen use to sell their "style", dvd's, certificates, patches, tshirts, and seminars.
most complete dvd sets are usually costly. century martial arts used to have clearance dvd's that have good content for about 10 bucks each. they are not complete sets though. i spent less than 30 dollars (with a gift certificate) on kenneth funakoshi's shotokan set. it was great supplement to my training.
if you are going to college soon check for clubs or classes. i lived near appalachian state for a while and ran across a great judo club that was only around 20 bucks a month. and it was conveniently on campus.
if i my ask....what exactly (or with whom) do you have your brown belt with? be careful who you associate with in the "christian martial arts" circles. they are known for handing out rank with no regard for what you actually know. if you were studying with someone legit with ties to okinawa then you are lucky. i know first hand that most of the christian martial arts people make it up as they go.
if you cant beat them, arrange to have them beaten.
-george carlin
my sokes name is Scott Gilbert. Chutoko Ryu Karate.
from school website "In 2003, Soke Scott was recognized by the Zen Kokusai Soke Budo/Bugei Renmei of Okinawa/Japan as a Soke Shodai (1st generation Head Founder) of Chutoku Ryu Karate. Chutoku Ryu Karate is one of the first fully Christian martial arts systems in the world with full Okinawan certification and credentialing." saviormartialarts.com
if possible do you know of any clubs that teach GJJ or Judo in The Bethesda MD area? I will be taking my Grad courses there.
He who has faith has... an inward reservoir of courage, hope, confidence, calmness, and assuring trust that all will come out well - even though to the world it may appear to come out most badly.
B. C. Forbes
as far as college clubs go. they are usually listed around campus on flyers or school newsletters. your best bet would be to ask around with the wrestling team (if they have one) or ask the phys ed coaches or professors. what school is it?
not knocking your sensei at all, he seems to be a very qualified instructor. thank your stars for that. however, i disagree with the idea of mixing christianity and martial arts. most christians dont understand the value of training and consider it barbaric. i went that route before at the church i was attending at the time. it was an epic failure, not only was there very little interest, i had a lot of opposition from deacons and such.
as far as reality based self defense goes, you have a solid base in your traditional knowledge. i find techniques and concepts from my shotokan days transfer in some way or another. the gracie defense package is expensive and in my opinion somewhat incomplete as it relates to the full spectrum personal protection. i would recommend the SPEAR system or some other complete program. if you have law enforcement or military friends ask them what their training consist of. that would be helpful in making a decision on what you spend time working on. the main goal is to use common sense and keep it simple.
if you cant beat them, arrange to have them beaten.
-george carlin
thanks will do
He who has faith has... an inward reservoir of courage, hope, confidence, calmness, and assuring trust that all will come out well - even though to the world it may appear to come out most badly.
B. C. Forbes
@themadness, I just found your comment interesting about Christians. Not quite sure what would make you think they don't understand the value of training in mma/martial arts. I am guessing you are more referring to the fundamentalist types. In no way do I take offense to your comment, I am just more curious.
----
"The nation that draws too great a distinction between its scholars and warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
--Unknown
LSBJJ...where the HELL is your eye rolling gif??
By the way, that "soke" stuff in the U.S. seems to be pretty sketchy. Any by that I mean that it's essentially bought and paid for certification. Sometimes you don't even have to pay. There are websites where you just join and then get to nominate others for martial-badassedness.
Scott Sonnon lists himself on some of those sites to back up his credentials. He also started calling himself a PhD, though...so that's just a little nuts.
ونحن جميعا الكتب من الدم ، وعندما أردنا فتح نحن الحمراء.
i just have been around people, especially in the church i was in, that thought i was looking to turn the few that were interested in to bullies. no matter how hard i tried to explain the benefits, they just wouldnt hear it. i had a few tell me straight up that i was doing WRONG by teaching people how to fight.
i have found with a lot of people in this area have a hard time with learning to defend yourself when jesus said to turn the other cheek. it just turned into a big mess involving doctrine and the simple fact that i was instructing "punchin' and kickin' in god's house". the church was southern baptist and the pastor was very supportive but there was too much conflict in it for me to continue.
after that experience i just felt like:
1) teaching a christian martial art is complex paradox. fighting and jesus just dont mix in my opinion.
2) the general public, in this area atleast, have absolutley no interest in learning to defend themselves. martial arts classes are a babysitting service for most people.
3) people, even in the martial arts community, dont understand reality. most folks hope that if something pops off at the atm the police will swoop in and save the day. it just doesnt work that way.
dont get me wrong...... good moral values can be taught in the midst of punching and kicking. some people are even successful at using their knowledge and talent to share their religious beliefs. i for one just feel like it should be separate as they tend to get in the way of each other.
if you cant beat them, arrange to have them beaten.
-george carlin
Appreciate the thoughtful answer. What you are saying makes a lot of sense. I guess I have always seen it from another way. As a military guy, all the places I have gone to church always preached how people have to stand up to evil and that our country has to defend itself. I have met plenty of people though that you have mentioned. I agree with you that most people don't understand reality.
----
"The nation that draws too great a distinction between its scholars and warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools."
--Unknown
@bulleteater
this is exactly the thing i was talking about. these guys pass out rank like candy at halloween. all you really have to do is sign up and pay a membership fee. two weeks later you get a great big nice certificate to hang on your wall. i got sucked in to that several years ago thinking they really had something to offer.
after the church incident i dropped the whole "christian association" thing. i got with some military and law enforcement buddies and dove head first into real training.
most of the association groups are just marketing and money makers anyway. its a fraternity of people that decide who they like and dont like based only on what you tell them. i could join up and tell them i was a grandmaster in kill-u-qwik kwan fu and they would legitimize it with a piece of paper.
case in point.........
if you cant beat them, arrange to have them beaten.
-george carlin
This guy is acting like his students are twisting because his raw power!! Anybody who's ever held pads knows that it's because if you held a pad out that far WITH ONE ARM you'd snap your arm off if somebody just pushed it. What a fun game!
ونحن جميعا الكتب من الدم ، وعندما أردنا فتح نحن الحمراء.
i know first hand that he is one of those guys that is all smoke and mirrors. he makes it up as he goes. just look at his "credentials"......
9th dan in some imaginary art
8th dan in the same thing with a different name
8th dan in lets pretend
7th dan in whatever i want it to be
all phoney certifications from his friends and colleagues.
i will admit to trying that sales pitch "look at what i can do" about five or so years ago. then i woke up and realized that the proof should be in the pudding. for many years i chased belts and ranks like a dog chases cars. when i hit a point where my instructor refused to teach me anything after my black belt, i shunned the whole system. belts are bullshit. i know of many people without "grandmaster" status that could beat the brakes off of a great majority of these fronters.
if you cant beat them, arrange to have them beaten.
-george carlin
A decent high school wrestler would ruin any bullshido teachers day.
ونحن جميعا الكتب من الدم ، وعندما أردنا فتح نحن الحمراء.
alot of this stuff is bs. reality base training is alot of theory. alot of these guys never really tried against big strong guys, fast strong guys, guys with knock out power etc.
the onlly way you gonna get good at reality fighting is to do it. test it out yourself. i find wrestlilng with couple submissions at the end of each technique works very well. coupled with boxing. very good street defense.
i am forty years old. had a few fights. what helped me out all along was a good one two punch double leg dive and do your thing on the ground. i was doing that in the eighties. i used to take boxing. and being wrestler it was natural jab to the face, cross and double. or jab. not fake jab him hard and dive in. usually works. most guys on the street don't train for this stuffing takedowns. chances of meeting a champion grappler are very slim.
anyway, this past weekend i got into a fight with a punk. 18 year old wannabe. instinct kicked in. one two, doub leg takedown. slapped on a top wrist lock within a 30 seconds fight was over.
then i don't have the killer instinct i used to. where you fight tell they can't get up. i let him back up. he threw a rock at me gave me 7 stitches on my head. you have to keep fighting at this stage, cause he was trying to attack me. but, he realized i was coming after him, he ran away. reallity based fighting is not what it seems sometimes. you can train for it in the gym, but if you never really got into a fight, you won't know what to do, or you will panic. adrenaline does weird shit to the mind and body.
and don't stay on the bottom, get up, go on top. it is easier to submit from the top. and keep wrestling, no matter what wrestle and wrestle your way out.
"A decent high school wrestler would ruin any bullshido teachers day."
This is so true. I've found most RBSD stuff doesn't respond to aggression, strength or intensity very well. And honestly, most traditional Martial arts are kind of guilty of this. The only RBSD kind of stuff I can think of that are good are Burton Richardson and Vunak. They seem to have gone th extra mile to understand ALL the variables and understand that the attacker dictates the situation, not the defender. The defender must have the appropriate responces to an intense attack of any type. Most RBSD guys are. "we'll if he does this, I'll do that." 99% of the time, when the attacker does "this" they'll often limit your options to do "that." You can't rely on speed, throat punches and eye rakes when some dude has his head burried in your chest doing a side slam. No eyes, not throat, no targets for your BS.
Also concerning the side conversation, I've seen some badass christian martial artists. I find Jesus's messge contrary to fighting...however, I find the entire christian message consistent with killing and fighting. How someone reconciles those two things is up to them. I don't. And I don't see how people can, but they tend to jump through all kinds of hoops to do it. However, I feel if you're jumping through hoops to justify something, you're probably being inconsistent or justifying something you know is probably wrong. Something like religion should be pretty self-evident and not require alot of justifying. But hey , you gotta live with yourself.

"Don't let up until you hear cartilage snap, or they crap in their pants."
"Kickin' me was right. Checkin' to see if I was okay was wrong.."
Sal Bandini
@Kilbot Vunak's system was the cool JKD that I studied, but like I've said we also had an amazing thai and wrestling/bjj coach. The Kali was still probably my favorite, I got pretty good with a knife. However, a tough wrestler could still control most people without a decent ground game at that school and there's still no way any of the girls were a threat.
@Kelby Yeah, tried and true. Sorry about your head, but keep thumping punks and the rest of us will keep up our end.
ونحن جميعا الكتب من الدم ، وعندما أردنا فتح نحن الحمراء.
note to self: when outwrestled and overpowered by a bigger, stronger attacker, just tap, throw rocks, and pop smoke
disclaimer: I am not a fighter, coach, or blackbelt. I am a nerd with a laptop and an internet connection who happens to love martial arts and MMA.
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I love it when people are the end all be all. If your friend REALLY beleives that then he may not be helpable. This crap is almost like alchoholism, they have to want to help themselves, you can't do it for them!