Simple vs. Complicated Jiu Jitsu
Fri, 02/01/2008 - 13:11
I saw this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQzMl51nZ48
It brought up a question in my mind. I've never seen Rickson win with anything but 'simple' moves. Do you guys think Rickson trains against complicated moves? Or will the basics, 'very solid basics' help you defend against anything?
Fri, 02/01/2008 - 13:29
#2
The way I see it is that a good root in the "Basics" of Jiu-Jitsu is what you need to excell in the sport at any level. It would be quite difficult to win a competition or a MMA fight if you didn't know that exposing your arms, legs, or neck is a very bad thing, or if you didnt know how to work your way out of, or work your way in to a dominant position. Things that are learned at White and Blue belt level are crucial to a JJ player. I am only a 6 tip white belt in BJJ and through the drills that we have done in class and rolling against blue and purple belts (let me revise...Patient purple belts lol)I am confident that I can defend or work my way out of most submissions (if they arn't incredibly deep, lets face it everybody gets caught).
Fri, 02/01/2008 - 14:01
#3
This question has come up before. Personally I agree with Rickson, I am a big fan of working the basics till they become instinctive, then moving on to some other fancy moves as icing on the cake. The thing is that we in western society in this era have no patience. We aren't like the Japanese from the turn of the century where they would work one technique for months on end, even years before moving onto the next one. We want immediate results and we want to be entertained while we are at it. So though the basics should be trained over and over again other more spectacular moves can be added in to keep our attention.
As a Judo coach I try to re-emphasise the basics each time I teach a new move. I try to make sure the students know that the basics are the foundation of their judo house. Without a good foundation the house will sink or the walls will fall down. The new moves keep their interest level up, but working the basics along with the new move strengthens their understanding of the sport. The will build a nice solid house, with one or two interesting features!
If a fighter is going into competition it would benefit them to know about flying arm bars so they can defend against them. But with a good knowledge of basic defence and with a sound understanding of the sport a practitioner can work out how to get into or out of a situation even if it's a completely new situation. Without the basics you can be lost in a new situation.
It has been said by the older Judo Japanese generation that to know one technique so well that you can perform it from every angle and in every situation is better than knowing many techniques only a little bit.
Fri, 02/01/2008 - 14:29
#4
The basics are always worth going over again and again and again. It's too bad my BJJ school doesn't have a beginner class, only a kids class (under ~10 yrs) and an adults class (over ~10 yrs). So, when I bring my cousin or sister to class, who have no experience, we are practicing all these sweeps and fancy stuff and they don't know how to do basic armbars or positions, then I have to spend the rolling time teaching them that.
Fri, 02/01/2008 - 14:42
#5
NidanNic wrote:
This question has come up before. Personally I agree with Rickson, I am a big fan of working the basics till they become instinctive, then moving on to some other fancy moves as icing on the cake. The thing is that we in western society in this era have no patience. We aren't like the Japanese from the turn of the century where they would work one technique for months on end, even years before moving onto the next one. We want immediate results and we want to be entertained while we are at it. So though the basics should be trained over and over again other more spectacular moves can be added in to keep our attention.As a Judo coach I try to re-emphasise the basics each time I teach a new move. I try to make sure the students know that the basics are the foundation of their judo house. Without a good foundation the house will sink or the walls will fall down. The new moves keep their interest level up, but working the basics along with the new move strengthens their understanding of the sport. The will build a nice solid house, with one or two interesting features!
If a fighter is going into competition it would benefit them to know about flying arm bars so they can defend against them. But with a good knowledge of basic defence and with a sound understanding of the sport a practitioner can work out how to get into or out of a situation even if it's a completely new situation. Without the basics you can be lost in a new situation.
It has been said by the older Judo Japanese generation that to know one technique so well that you can perform it from every angle and in every situation is better than knowing many techniques only a little bit.
I agree, I even find I have this problem a lot. Like I've only been training BJJ for about 9 months and sometimes I get ahead of myself rather then practicing and mastering the basics.
Fri, 02/01/2008 - 19:29
#6
I think it's about stages of learning. You learn the basics (white belt), then you learn the gimmicks (blue), then refine the basics (purple), then add more gimmicks (brown), then refine your gimmicks and put out a set of cheesy instructionals (black...ok, not really, but you know what I mean).
Some people have arthropods lodged firmly in their rectums that preclude any time to screw around with gimmicks, but gimmicks are fun and fun is an essential part of maintaining interest (and being happy). So I think it's fine to work on some less practical stuff when you're in those stages of learning, but if you don't break out of that mindset, you remain a blue belt forever.
Fri, 02/01/2008 - 22:59
#7
adv moves are fun but the basics always seem to work for me :D
Fri, 02/01/2008 - 23:20
#8
I Need and use Both.
Sat, 02/02/2008 - 00:43
#9
stick with the basics.
Sat, 02/02/2008 - 01:15
#10
This is a really tough question to answer.
I feel like the basics have been what have saved me, but at the same time my rubber guard has been what's let me win all of my matches. Seriously, the rubberguard gets me the W, and it's a pretty fancy/complicated system.
I have to agree with the Submissions 101 guy I guess. If you practice the fancy stuff over and over, it stops being fancy. Once you understand a technique, it's no longer mystical.
It probably comes down to personal preference, but who knows. I'm just a white belt.
-Marshal
Latest Comments
- 4 Comments 9 hours 43 min ago
- 38 Comments 10 hours 47 min ago
- 1 Comments 14 hours 16 min ago
- 1 Comments 1 day 3 hours ago
- 0 Comments 1 day 12 hours ago
- 4 Comments 1 day 13 hours ago
- 7 Comments 4 days 16 hours ago
- 6 Comments 5 days 2 hours ago
- 2 Comments 5 days 2 hours ago
- 8 Comments 5 days 2 hours ago
- 3 Comments 5 days 2 hours ago
- 4 Comments 5 days 2 hours ago
- 5 Comments 5 days 2 hours ago
- 1 Comments 5 days 2 hours ago
- 1 Comments 5 days 2 hours ago
Images
Sponsors
At a recent seminar with Royce, he spend about 15 minutes talking about the basics, and how 90% of fights that end in submission are using those basic moves.
That being said, the innovations in getting the basic submissions (set-ups) are great also.