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sleep deprivation?

mania's picture
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i recently watched a doc about military sleep deprivation training and how they use it as conditioning to help soldiers with mental endurance and stress management. do you guys think occasionally using deprivation drills could help with self defense and mma training in any way?

if you cant beat them, arrange to have them beaten.
-george carlin

ptbeast's picture
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As someone who has been put through military sleep deprivation on a minor level (boot camp) and a major level (SERE school) as well as someone with extreme insomnia, I can tell you that I don't think so.

Minor levels of sleep deprivation can help you learn to concentrate and perform when tired. Extreme levels of sleep deprivation can help you push you absolute mental limits. In a semi-controlled environment like SERE school, where you literally are not allowed to sleep for days, it can help you push your mental limits to the extreme. These things are valuable in a military environment where it is foreseeable that people would have to perform under extreme stress with little sleep, and possibly even be tortured.

In the civilian world, especially for the purposes of MMA and self defense, I don't think that the perceived benefits would be with the cost. Sleep deprivation is unhealthy, takes time to recover from, and has serious negative effects on your training. Fighters are already put under serious stress in the form of sparring. That is the beauty of live sparring against fully resisting opponents. It is stressful to have someone pinning you to the ground and/or punching you in the face. This is the appropriate type of stress to prepare yourself for self defense or sport combat.

Just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

Dave

Alive MMA/Brazilian Top Team
Portland, OR

Enigmachrysalis's picture
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What gnarly stuff do they do to keep you awake in SERE school?

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thatguy0311's picture
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SERE stands for Survive, Escape, Resist Evade, I believe (I never went throught the school, only heard about it.)

Common things that people like Drill Instructors and the guys in MOUT/BUST school do is keep you running drills, yelling, shaking, physical conditioning training, etc, etc. Basically keeping your body in motion when it wants to shut down. This has good and bad effects.

On the good side, it does increase your mental endurance, much like any kind of conditioning does. It allows you to identify your fatigue level and power through it to complete the objective. Pushing your fatigue levels allow you to maintain an acceptable level of function, in some cases even subconsciously (kinda like sleepwalking or 'zoning out')

On the bad side, sleep is needed in order for your body and mind to repair itself. Futzing with your sleep cycle can cause all manner of problems ranging from osetoarthritis and muscle atrophy to full on psychosis. Without sleep, your brain can't 'defrag' all the information its taken in during its time awake, and you end up forgetting things that may be important, whether in a military or competitve setting. Also, without sleep, your mind can't regulate your body temperature, blood glucose, and other hormones that help to keep your body clean and healthy.

Now in a military setting, the benefits outweight the risks-for instance, if I stay awake for 24 hours and make sure that no one driving a truck full of explosives blows up my unit, then i guess im staying awake for 24 hours. In a competitive setting like MMA, i dont think it will do any good. Ever have one of 'those' days, where your keep getting caught in basic stuff and it just seems like you're dragging ass left right and center? your MMA instructor puts you through a cardio workout that you should be able to handle, but you're sucking wind? That's what happens when you're body is out of regulation. My advice: Sleep well and comfortably, at least 7 hours every night if possible. You'll find that your body is tougher, your mind sharper, and your game more solid than doing some kind of sleep deprivation training.

Enigmachrysalis's picture
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Yeah, I know what it is, but I wanted to hear what ptbeast experienced personally.

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zombiekev's picture
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I feel that sleep deprivation would lead to physical breakdown of some sort. Maybe even make you weaker by putting your body on overload. Sleep is very important. Sleep is when your body recovers.

ptbeast's picture
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I am not going to go into too much detail on SERE school in an open forum. It is not that it is classified or anything like that, just that they have asked that we don't discuss it in detail so that those going through it in the future will not know what to expect. Of course when I went through it was years ago. In fact, they recently closed the base (Brunswick Maine).

I will say that when I went through (again showing my age) the majority of the instructors had actually been POWs in Vietnam. They used a variety of techniques, both physical and psychological to attempt to break us down, but sleep deprivation was the worst. There were points where some of the guys going through it forgot that it was training. Lack of sleep can really mess with your head. Keeping your wits about you was extremely difficult.

I lost over ten pounds that week and it took me days before I felt back to normal. It is something that I am glad that I went through, but would be in no hurry to do again. A once in a lifetime type thing.

Sorry Enigmachrysalis. I know that didn't really answer your question. But you know what they say, the first rule of fight club...

Alive MMA/Brazilian Top Team
Portland, OR

Enigmachrysalis's picture
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I don't want you to spill the beans, but I just meant that when you felt like you were nodding off, did they just get in your face, or did they knock you on your ass?

Was there a special unit for which you were training?

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ptbeast's picture
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In answer to your question, yes. They used all kinds of things to keep you awake, from making you sit or stand in certain postures, to constant checks with the threat of punishment, to more physical measures.

I was Navy and went through SERE because I was an Aircrewman with orders overseas. At least at that time, that required SERE. I was in the intel field as opposed to combat. So it is not like I was a SEAL or something. Big smile

Alive MMA/Brazilian Top Team
Portland, OR

powerof0ne's picture
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My last unit was 10th Special Forces Group (A) out of Ft. Carson, CO. A good friend of mine just graduated SERE a couple of months ago, too out of Ft. Bragg, NC.

I wouldn't say there are any special skills but determination of making it through. Like PTbeast said, even for SF SERE, there are many similarities with the checks and sounds that are being made to keep you up.

Your mind plays tricks on you, and time will seem a lot longer then it is at times or through even more serious levels of sleep deprivation you can see stuff that isn't really there.

I see no edge this would give you for martial arts training, because why in the hell would you need to stay awake for days, to a week+ at the time for training or competition?

My advice is to sleep 7-9 hours a night, drink plenty of water, and just be healthy.
Osu!

Keep training and enjoy what you do.

John's picture
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I agree with powerofOne. Im also exmilitary and have had insomnia my entire life. There is no benefit to it. Even speaking from an emotional/mental durability standpoint, its damaging. Get the sleep you need, broski.

"Your suffering will be legendary...even in hell..."

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