Test or Fight for rank?
Thu, 02/08/2007 - 11:42
OK, so recently my Bjj school had testing to obtain your next belt.
Mostly white to blue promotions, a couple white to green for kids and 1 or 2 blue to purple.
Recently some of these testee's that passed went to a tourny and lost.
It has always been my understanding that to advance in Bjj you must beat people of whatever belt your at; and not just in your own school but people from others.
(I know there are some schools in the sticks that have no others to compete with, but that's not the case here)
Two people decided not to test because they wanted to earn the belt the old fashion way. One person tested but very politely did not accept the rank until he goes to another tourny.
So my question is which school of thought are you in?
Fight for it?
Test for it?
I feel some of the people who were promoted are not quite ready. They have enough knowledge to be promoted and do well against others in the school but can't seem to actually apply it on the mat when it counts.
If they can't win in a white belt division they sure as hell aren't gonna make it in the blue.
Whaddya think??
It's not a hobby, it's a way of life.
Thu, 02/08/2007 - 11:58
#2
well, there are some people that don't want to compete. if fighting is the only way to advance and they don't compete, they're stuck.
on the other hand if they don't want to compete one might assume they're learning bjj for other reasons (like purely for fitness) and might not care if they advance or not.
however, if it were my school, i think i might go the way of fight for advancing.
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Thu, 02/08/2007 - 12:01
#3
I would say they should either grapple peers for promotion (if they could go against another school, that would definitely be best), or they should grapple an instructor. I'm not saying they are likely to succeed, but at the same time, I wouldn't expect an instructor to quickly tap out the poor student. When I taught grappling, I wouldn't test students for belts because I didn't have the authority, that is, no belt of my own. But I did grapple with them often. It was sort of like a way they could test what they learned. I had enough experience that winning would be improbable for them, but I let the match go on. If they showed signs of weakness, like giving up their back, I would slip into a rear naked choke so that they knew what they did wrong, but I would back up a few steps so that they could try to correct their mistakes. I learned that this worked out really well for them, because they were testing their knowledge against my experience, and they had to try a whole range of techniques, like escaping, submissions, counters. I could really see where they were lacking and what they were improving.
Thu, 02/08/2007 - 12:21
#4
like gr8waz said, some don't want to compete. itz more of a fitness/hobby. so i think it should b an option. personally i would like to fight for it, but i would not look down on a person who test for it.
天下無難事，只怕有心人
Thu, 02/08/2007 - 12:24
#5
gr8waz wrote:
well, there are some people that don't want to compete. if fighting is the only way to advance and they don't compete, they're stuck.Quote:Yeah I didn't think of it that way.
I just have a hard time saying someone is a certain rank if the only people they beat are the ones in class. You know what I mean? After time you figure out every ones trick and their weaknesses. It doesn't seem like a fair representation of their skills.
I'm not saying they have to go to a tourny but at least go to another school and have some friendly competition. Or invite them to your school.
It's not a hobby, it's a way of life.
Thu, 02/08/2007 - 12:30
#6
I think in some Judo schools they actually have a different belt for people that don't compete. For example, a competition black belt would not have a stripe and a teaching black belt would.
That is not to say the people that just teach and don't compete are no good. They still hold great respect and can kick ass they just choose not to compete for whatever reasons.
It's not a hobby, it's a way of life.
Thu, 02/08/2007 - 12:40
#7
odyssey11 wrote:
gr8waz wrote:well, there are some people that don't want to compete. if fighting is the only way to advance and they don't compete, they're stuck.Yeah I didn't think of it that way.
I just have a hard time saying someone is a certain rank if the only people they beat are the ones in class. You know what I mean? After time you figure out every ones trick and their weaknesses. It doesn't seem like a fair representation of their skills.
I'm not saying they have to go to a tourny but at least go to another school and have some friendly competition. Or invite them to your school.
yeah, that makes sense. itz better to have something new to challenge then something u r use to. i wonder, how r the test conducted in ur class to move up ranks?
天下無難事，只怕有心人
Thu, 02/08/2007 - 13:22
#8
Fighting for rank is the way to go, whether it be competition or internally. Don't get me wrong, there should be a "test" either way, because at each level their should be certain moves that you know. However, you should still have to fight and be able to hold your own with people of the same level.
Thu, 02/08/2007 - 13:31
#9
i dont necessarily believe in competing for your belt level. but, i believe you have to show practical knowledge of what you're learning. so having some rolling as part of your test, but not necessarily based on submitting the person, etc.
like, even if it was between clubmembers, i'm the only girl that would be testing, and all the guys are like, 170. if i had to sub one, i'd be screwed. and, some people can submit even without having the skill level. i dont believe it's fair to have someone that has been training for 6 months, but knows how to muscle through something and slap on a sub should get a belt before someone who knows what they are doing but just cant finish.
also, i believe belt levels are part what you know, and part how you use it. like, 70%-30%
some people have vast bjj knowledge, and are very very skillful, but just cant compete. i know people like that.
Thu, 02/08/2007 - 15:04
#10
i dont care about belts i just wanna learn to fight so i can beat the living crap out of people on the ring. ive been doing this for some time now and im still a white belt. :twisted:
Thu, 02/08/2007 - 15:14
#11
Clubber wrote:
i dont care about belts i just wanna learn to fight so i can beat the living crap out of people on the ring. ive been doing this for some time now and im still a white belt. :twisted:
hahahaha! fair enough.
天下無難事，只怕有心人
Thu, 02/08/2007 - 15:21
#12
maybe to throw another idea out there how about when you join a club and get licenced to learn whatever your chosen art is you could specify the reason you are starting to join ie to fight or for fitnes self defence and so on. then you could test people accordingly those who want it for fighting have to fight those for self defence maybe a grading more on knowledge with some practical application would work better.
how does this sound ?
Thu, 02/08/2007 - 15:23
#13
has to be a way to combine the two.
both.
Thu, 02/08/2007 - 17:08
#14
Tank-Jitsu wrote:
i wonder, how r the test conducted in ur class to move up ranks?
The testing was basically a really hard class. Rigorous warm up, demonstration of skills expected to be known on semi resistant opponent. Then one person in the middle against fresh opponent every 5 min. for 4 or 5 people. Then 10 minutes with 2 different instructors.
It's not a hobby, it's a way of life.
Thu, 02/08/2007 - 17:15
#15
grappler06 wrote:
i dont necessarily believe in competing for your belt level. but, i believe you have to show practical knowledge of what you're learning. so having some rolling as part of your test, but not necessarily based on submitting the person, etc.like, even if it was between clubmembers, i'm the only girl that would be testing, and all the guys are like, 170. if i had to sub one, i'd be screwed. and, some people can submit even without having the skill level. i dont believe it's fair to have someone that has been training for 6 months, but knows how to muscle through something and slap on a sub should get a belt before someone who knows what they are doing but just cant finish.
also, i believe belt levels are part what you know, and part how you use it. like, 70%-30%
some people have vast bjj knowledge, and are very very skillful, but just cant compete. i know people like that.
Well this is a perfect example of why someone should go to a comp to get promoted. It is going to be the only place you will have people of similar weight and skill to test yourself against. Of course a 170lb guy is going to be able to muscle you, and that can be a great training tool to make you better, but it's not a good judge of where your skills are at because they have to tone things down. (unless you are tapping them, then your skills are fine :D )
Not to mention the stress and adrenaline of competition. I don't think you get those as much in class and it can really affect your jitsu. You can be sure adrenaline will be pumping in a real fight so might as well make sure your skills work under the pressure.
It's not a hobby, it's a way of life.
Thu, 02/08/2007 - 17:17
#16
odyssey11 wrote:
Tank-Jitsu wrote:i wonder, how r the test conducted in ur class to move up ranks?The testing was basically a really hard class. Rigorous warm up, demonstration of skills expected to be known on semi resistant opponent. Then one person in the middle against fresh opponent every 5 min. for 4 or 5 people. Then 10 minutes with 2 different instructors.
and how would one fail? like if the person gets tapped by the opponent would they automatically fail?
天下無難事，只怕有心人
Thu, 02/08/2007 - 18:35
#17
You know to be honest I have no idea how someone would fail. Not just for tapping though. I think they would have to be very far behind in knowledge or skill. But in that case I don't think they would have been asked to test.
I have been out for a while due to a neck surgery so I was not asked to test.
Maybe the test was just more of a formality. I don't know.
It's not a hobby, it's a way of life.
Thu, 02/08/2007 - 18:51
#18
hmmm, ic ic.
天下無難事，只怕有心人
Tue, 02/13/2007 - 12:50
#19
Tank-Jitsu wrote:
like gr8waz said, some don't want to compete. itz more of a fitness/hobby. so i think it should b an option. personally i would like to fight for it, but i would not look down on a person who test for it.
I agree. Some of my students do it for recreation and or exercise.Competition is not a prerequisite.
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I always figured that you needed to be able to hang with the blue belts to be a blue belt and so on with the higher ranks so I'd say fight for it.